New artificial intelligence regulations move forward at state house | CloseUp
WELCOME BACK TO CLOSE UP IN CONCORD. THERE ARE MANY STATE REPS WHO RUN TO WORK ON PET ISSUES, SOME OF WHICH CAN BE QUITE OBSCURE. BUT THIS SESSION, ONE FRESHMAN REP COMES TO THE STATE HOUSE FRESH OFF RETIREMENT FROM CHAIRING THE COMPUTER SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT DARTMOUTH, AND HE’S PLAYING A KEY ROLE IN SHAPING THE LEGISLATIVE DISCUSSION ON HOW TO DEAL WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. DOCTOR TOM CORMAN, STATE REPRESENTATIVE FROM LEBANON, IS OUR GUEST THIS MORNING. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, DOCTOR. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. SO WHERE YOU COME FROM, YOU’VE BEEN AWARE OF AI OR ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE FOR A LOT LONGER THAN MOST, BUT MOST PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC, I THINK THEY’RE JUST NOW BECOMING AWARE OF THIS. MAYBE THEY’VE USED CHATGPT, MAYBE THEY’VE READ AN ARTICLE OR TWO ABOUT SOME BIGWIG IN THE TECH INDUSTRY SAYING, THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY, VERY BAD FOR HUMANITY. I JUST WANT TO ASK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I’VE ALWAYS WANTED TO ASK ON THIS PROGRAM. IS THIS GOING TO BE THE END OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION? I DO NOT THINK IT IS GOING TO BE THE END OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. FOR ONE THING, WE CAN ALWAYS UNPLUG COMPUTERS. WE CONTROL THE PROGRAMING. WHAT WE COULD FIND IS THAT IT’S GOING TO BE MISUSED. IN FACT, WE HAVE FOUND THAT IT IS GOING TO BE MISUSED. THERE ARE PLENTY OF GREAT USES FOR ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS THAT IT CAN BE ABUSED AND MISUSED. BUT NO, IT’S NOT GOING TO END WESTERN CIVILIZATION. WE’RE GOING TO GET TO SOME OF THE BILLS THAT YOU’RE WORKING ON IN A MOMENT. BUT THIS NEW IDEA OF A TECHNOLOGY CAUSING A SCARE AND PEOPLE BEING TREPIDATIOUS ABOUT IT, NOTHING NEW IN HUMAN HISTORY PROBABLY HAS BEEN HAPPENING EVER SINCE. CAVEMEN STRAPPED SHARP ROCK TO A STICK. BUT WHEN A TOOL CAN THINK FOR ITSELF, AS I, SOME WOULD SAY CAN OR CAN’T, I DON’T KNOW. MAYBE I DON’T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A POSITION ON THIS, DOES THIS CHANGE THE GAME A LITTLE BIT WHEN IT CAN GAIN THIS SORT OF OR MIMIC SENTIENCE? I WOULD NOT SAY THAT I CAN THINK FOR ITSELF. WHAT IT CAN DO IS PICK PIECES OF KNOWLEDGE THAT WE HAVE GIVEN IT AND PUT THEM TOGETHER IN NEW AND CREATIVE WAYS, BUT REALLY THINKING FOR ITSELF, I DON’T. I WOULD NOT SAY THAT, UM, AS FAR AS WHAT IT’S GOING TO DO, UM, WE’LL SEE. YOU KNOW, WE’RE AT THIS POINT NOW, THIS IS REALLY AN INFLECTION POINT WHERE THE CAPABILITIES ARE INCREASING VERY, VERY RAPIDLY AS AI TRAINING SETS ARE GETTING LARGER AND LARGER, AND THE NEURAL NETS THAT ARE PROCESSING THEM ARE GETTING BETTER AND BETTER. AND THE IDEA IS THAT THIS IS SUCH ADVANCED COMPUTING, YOU CAN JUST SORT OF LIKE WITH A BIG STRAW, JUST DRINK UP ALL OF THIS INFORMATION. THAT’S OUT THERE IN THE DIGITAL WORLD AND USE IT. SO, UH, TO THE BILLS. WHY? FIRST, IS IT IMPORTANT TO PUT SOME GUARDRAIL AROUND HOW THIS TECHNOLOGY CAN BE USED. YES, IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT CAN BE USED FOR BAD PURPOSES. IT CAN BE USED TO DAMAGE INDIVIDUALS. IT CAN BE USED TO INFLUENCE ELECTIONS. AND IT CAN BE USED AGAINST THE PUBLIC. AND THOSE ARE THE THREE BILLS THAT HAVE RECENTLY PASSED THE HOUSE AND ACTUALLY ARE ALONG THOSE LINES. TAKE US THROUGH THE ONE THAT DEALS WITH STATE AGENCIES. FOR INSTANCE, YOUR BILL THERE WOULD HAVE SORT OF MAKE SURE THAT A HUMAN BEING IS AT THE END OF ANY DECISION MAKING CHAIN THAT HAS AI INVOLVED WITH IT. WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT? THAT’S RIGHT. RIGHT. WELL, I MIGHT MAKE A MISTAKE, RIGHT? IT MIGHT MISIDENTIFY SOMEBODY. IT MIGHT JUST MAKE A WRONG DECISION. THE EXAMPLE I LOVE TO GIVE IS IMAGINE A HOSTAGE SITUATION WHERE THE STATE POLICE SEND IN A ROBOT. THE ROBOT SHOULD NOT DECIDE WHAT TO DO, BECAUSE IF THE ROBOT DECIDES TO SHOOT SOMEBODY AND THAT’S A MISTAKE, YOU CANNOT UN SHOOT THEM. UM, THIS INTERSECTION OF OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND LAW ENFORCEMENT IS THAT ONE THAT IS A PARTICULAR CONCERN. I GUESS, BECAUSE THERE’S GREAT POTENTIAL, BUT ALSO OBVIOUSLY CIVIL LIBERTIES ARE AT STAKE, TOO. THAT’S RIGHT. NOT JUST LAW ENFORCEMENT, BUT ALSO THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM. SO IT’S BEEN SHOWN THAT WHEN AI IS USED FOR SENTENCING GUIDELINES, THAT IT TENDS TO BE BIASED. SO THE BILL ACTUALLY PROHIBITS AI BEING USED FOR SENTENCING AS WELL. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BIAS EXPLAIN THAT. SO THE COMPUTER AGAIN IS NOT SELF-AWARE, BUT IT HAS CERTAIN BECAUSE OF ITS INPUT. IT HAS A CERTAIN BIASES. THAT’S RIGHT. I MEAN, ANY TRAINING DATA SET IS WHAT IT IS. AND IT IS GOING TO HAVE WHATEVER INHERENT BIASES ARE ACTUALLY IN THAT TRAINING DATA SET. AND IT MIGHT BE A SMALL SAMPLE, IT MIGHT BE A LARGE SAMPLE, IT MIGHT BE THE WHOLE INTERNET. BUT ANYTHING LIKE THAT IS GOING TO BE BIASED. NEW HAMPSHIRE IS FIRST IN THE NATION FOR THE PRIMARY AND WE GAINED ANOTHER INTERESTING DISTINCTION THIS TIME AROUND WITH THAT AI GENERATED ROBO CALL THAT MIMICKED FORMER PRESIDENT BIDEN’S VOICE, YOU KNOW, TELLING DEMOCRATS TO SAVE THEIR VOTE AND NOT PARTICIPATE IN THIS PRIMARY. ONE CAN ARGUE THIS WAS KIND OF A HAM FISTED ATTEMPT AT USING THIS AS, UH, ALLEGEDLY NEFARIOUS AS IT MAY HAVE BEEN. IT’S NOT HARD TO IMAGINE SOMETHING MORE SOPHISTICATED, MORE NEFARIOUS BEING DEPLOYED IN OCTOBER OR NOVEMBER. ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THAT? OH, I’M VERY WORRIED ABOUT THAT. AND REALLY, THE THE NEW HAMPSHIRE HOUSE IS WORRIED ABOUT THAT. THAT’S WHY WE PASSED A BILL ABOUT DEEPFAKES IN ELECTIONS. UH, THE TECHNOLOGY IS ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER, AND IT’S ALREADY AT THE POINT NOW WHERE ONLY AN EXPERT CAN DETERMINE SOME OF THE DEEPFAKES AS DEEPFAKES. THEY COULD EASILY FOOL YOU OR ME. ONE QUESTION ABOUT ADAPTABILITY. BUT FIRST, I’M CURIOUS. YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS THIS SETS UP RULES FOR PEOPLE WHO PLAY BY THE RULES, RIGHT? THAT YOU CAN’T USE DECEPTIVE AI WITHOUT DISCLOSING IT IN A POLITICAL AD. WHAT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FOREIGN ACTORS, UH, DROPPING A VIDEO ON SOCIAL MEDIA THIS OBVIOUSLY THEY CAN STILL DO THAT WITH GREAT ALACRITY, I’M SURE. RIGHT. THERE’S ONLY SO MUCH THAT WE CAN DO WITH A STATE LAW, BUT WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS PREVENT SOMEBODY FROM CREATING A DECEPTIVE DEEPFAKE OR DISSEMINATING A DECEPTIVE DEEPFAKE THAT THEY KNOW IS A DECEPTIVE DEEPFAKE. SO IF IT’S SOMEBODY IN STATE DOING THAT, THEN THAT WOULD BE PROHIBITED. IF IT’S SOMEBODY FROM OUTSIDE THE STATE OR OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY, AND IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE ON A SERVER SOMEWHERE, THERE’S REALLY ONLY SO MUCH THAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE RECOGNITION, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE CERTAIN LITTLE TELLS. YOU COULD SEE HITCHES AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THE VIDEO. DO YOU THINK THE ADAPTABILITY WILL APPLY TO HUMANITY TO THAT YOUNGER GENERATIONS WILL GET BETTER AT DISCERNING THIS, OR IS IT GOING TO BE SO SIMPATICO WITH REAL VIDEO THAT YOU JUST WON’T BE ABLE TO TELL? I’M AFRAID THAT IT’S GOING TO BE UNDETERRED, EXCEPT BY EXPERT MEANS. UH, WHERE WHERE THERE’S VERY CAREFUL ANALYSIS DONE OF THE VIDEO WITH REALLY COMPUTER IZED MEANS TO TO REALLY LOOK FOR THE IRREGULARITIES. UM, YOU KNOW, THIS BILL PASSED IN THE HOUSE, UH, FAIRLY EASILY. THERE WAS A BIT MORE OF A FIGHT IN THE ELECTION LAW COMMITTEE OVER, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN SCENARIOS WHERE AI MIGHT BE USED, UH, NOT NECESSARILY IN A DECEPTIVE WAY, BUT THE EXAMPLE THAT WAS RAISED WAS THIS SITUATION IN PAKISTAN WHERE A CANDIDATE WAS JAILED FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND HIS CAMPAIGN SCRAMBLED AND SAID, OKAY, WELL, WE’RE JUST GOING TO USE AI TO GENERATE A VERSION OF OUR CANDIDATE TO CONTINUE CAMPAIGNING, AT LEAST IN THE DIGITAL REALM. OBVIOUSLY, I’M NOT SURE THE LAW WOULD APPLY. UH, YOU KNOW, IF IT PASSES TO THAT, BECAUSE THEY’RE USING IT TO ADVANCE THEIR CAMPAIGN, NOT HARM SOMEBODY ELSE. BUT DO YOU THINK THAT’S SOMETHING WE’RE GOING TO SEE MORE OF THAT PEOPLE JUST EXPAND WHAT THEY CAN DO WITH THIS. YES. I DO THINK WE’RE GOING TO SEE THAT. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT WHEN WHEN IT’S BEING USED FOR DECEPTIVE PURPOSES, AT LEAST OUR LAW, IF IT BECOMES A LAW, WILL HELP TO SOME DEGREE. BUT YEAH, I MEAN, WE’RE JUST GOING TO BE SEEING AI USED MORE AND MORE TO PRODUCE VIDEO, TO PRODUCE AUDIO, TO PRODUCE IMAGES, AND JUST IN VARIOUS ASPECTS OF EVERYDAY LIFE, WHETHER IT’S HELPING US MAKE DECISIONS OR DRIVE A CAR ALL SORTS OF WAYS THAT WE’RE GOING TO START SEEING AI IN OUR DAILY LIVES. I GUESS WITH THIS PAKISTANI EXAMPLE, IS IT STILL, DO YOU THINK, A VIOLATION OF THIS PROPOSED LAW, IF YOU’RE DOING IT TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK GOOD, RATHER THAN MAKE SOMEONE ELSE LOOK BAD? I DON’T THINK THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE LAW. I THINK IT’S IF YOU’RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO HARM ANOTHER CANDIDATE, DO YOU THINK WE’RE GOING TO EVENTUALLY NEED TO EXPAND? OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS NARROW STATE LAW. STATE AGENCIES, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL ADVERTISING. UM, WHAT’S YOUR POSITION IN TERMS OF THE EVENTUAL NEED FOR SOME REGULATION AND GUARDRAILS AROUND THE PRIVATE SECTOR? THAT’S A GOOD QUESTION. AND OTHER JURISDICTIONS ARE TRYING TO DO THAT. THE EU IS TRYING TO DO THAT. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT HERE WITH THE BILLS THAT WE HAVE NOW BEFORE WE START EXPANDING THE BILL THAT I DESIGNED, THE ONE THAT RESTRICTS WHAT STATE AGENCIES ARE ALLOWED TO DO, I REALLY DID DESIGN IT TO BE SOMETHING THAT COULD PASS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, AND I KNEW THAT IF I TRIED TO RESTRICT WHAT PRIVATE ENTERPRISE CAN DO, IT WOULD NOT PASS. SO I WANTED TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT WOULD PASS THAT WE CAN AT LEAST GET A FOOTHOLD IN REINING IN SOME OF THE MISUSE OF AI. YEAH, AND IT SEEMS LIKE THAT’S BEEN A BIG PART OF YOUR MISSION, IS MAKING SURE THIS IS A BIPARTISAN. AN EFFORT. YOU’RE PART OF THIS GRANITE BRIDGE LEGISLATIVE ALLIANCE. THAT’S RIGHT. WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU’VE GOT BOTH PARTIES ON BOARD WITH, WITH THIS KIND OF APPROACH TO TECHNOLOGY? WELL, IT’S IMPORTANT TO GET BOTH PARTIES ON BOARD WITH ANYTHING. YOU GET BETTER LAW THAT WAY. AND IT’S JUST IMPORTANT THAT WE TURN DOWN THE POLITICAL HEAT IN THE NATION. AND WE’RE GOING TO START HERE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHERE WE ARE GOING TO START TALKING TO EACH OTHER AS PEOPLE, LEARNING ABOUT EACH OTHER, AS PEOPLE AND RESPECTING EACH OTHER. ALL RIGHT. DOCTOR TOM CORMAN,
New artificial intelligence regulations move forward at state house | CloseUp
On Closeup, Rep. Tom Cormen said he does not believe artificial intelligence is the end of western civilization. However, he does believe the technology is being “misused.”
On Closeup, Rep. Tom Cormen said he does not believe artificial intelligence is the end of western civilization. However, he does believe the technology is being “misused.”